Re: your intro, I feel like people dont bother getting excited about the Ontario line because they assume it will not be done within 10 years and that’s too long a time horizon for most people to care about
Reece. Great post useful, and unlike 99.9% of other blogs, positive where positive is due. I sure hope your substack succeeds marvellously, as proof that there is an alternative to rage farming (which is so last year, and so boring).
Very exciting indeed. I’m 100% sure it will have a big impact on the TTC as well. PSDs and automation have been standard in France since the early 80s, but RATP only started retrofitting them into its legacy system after Line 14 opened—starting with Line 13 in 2006. Now they’re on a roll, studying the automation of Lines 7, 8, 9, 11, and 13 for the 2030s! The same will happen here; no doubt we’ll see the TTC retrofit driverless operation to Line 1 in our lifetime.
I’ve heard from locals that Line 14 has a bit of a reputation as the “great one” among the lines, mostly due to its speed, frequency, and grand stations. Locals don’t even rush or seem bothered when they hear the door-closing chime—they know the next train is in 85 seconds!
The Ontario Line is going to be not just Toronto’s but North America’s first Line 14. (27 years later—but better late than never.) Sure, its costs are astronomical (at French prices, we could get a 150 km fully underground system for the same amount of money!), but its long-term impact is going to be massive for the city!
I'm optimistic about the Ontario line as well, possibly because I an see the progress weekly as I'm not far from a future station. It will cut across the city unlike the other subway lines, connecting areas currently hard to bridge with transit (or even car) like Cosburn and Exhibition.
I wasn't aware that the Ontario line wouldn't be operated by the TTC!
I know you focus primarily on the transport side, but the TOC constructions in conjunction with a number of stations is particularly exciting and novel for Toronto. So many of our older stations are practically a shack among low density Semis at most (like Chester).
I live a block from Corktown station and I'm amazed by how few people seem to have any idea this is happening. The progress is relentless so far. I'm hoping this line opens roughly on time so I can make good use of it during my retirement years when long walks are less appealing than they are now.
Wow, thanks for the update on this amazing piece of work. So many details. For example, the screens are something that should be done on every subway. This fixes a major safety concern--something I think about when riding Metro in D.C. Also, the frequency of train stops is such an important point. People don't think of the instant availability of using their car until they have to wait for a bus/train. Making trains frequent and fast will change people's minds on mass transit. People will be attracted to this; especially when development is built out at new stations. Lastly, I'll be using the Chuo line when I visit Japan this August, and your observations on the massive amount of development on this line is spot on. I taught English in the mountains there for many years, and coming into Shinjuku on the Chuo was always a fascinating train ride. Thanks!
Man, it feels so good to feel like I'm allowed to be optimistic about something in the city these days. I think the competition with the TTC aspect is going to be such a critical force in terms of improving rider experience, almost like the different rail companies operating in Greater Tokyo.
I agree that the Ontario Line will be transformational, for all the reasons you state. Further extensions of it north in the east, and north-west from the Ex, will bring even more benefits to the city and region. Whilst Dundas West & Bloor is the favourite for the western extension, it already has Kitchener GO and UPX trains (the latter not fare integrated obvs), as well as a new GO station on the Barrie GO line a couple blocks east near Lansdowne station. It might be better to send the Ontario Line more westerly to serve Queen West and/or Dundas West, to Roncesvalles and on to the Queensway. The latter is a current stroad main street, but is becoming a condo corridor, with buildings popping up every block. Currently most transit users take buses up to Line 2 on Bloor, then on into town. It would be more efficient if they could take the Ontario Line into the built up parts of the city. I acknowledge that the Waterfront West LRT is also in the plans (albeit a later priority than the current subway extensions), but it hugs the lake, so not convenient in most locations (except at Queen & Roncies) for the West End and the Queensway. Of course, implementing transit only lanes on the streetcar lines & major arterials, with working enforcement, will do wonders for transit use and network connexions as well.
The problem with building LRT on the Queensway or Lakeshore, is likely to be the relatively narrow road allowance. The politics of reducing the lanes cars are allowed to use, is likely to be very contentious. Having said that - cost of delivery, would be radically less, and I strongly suspect we will shortly be looking hard at a belt tightening again.
City managing to make effective use of the closed ROW it already has in the eastern portion of the Queensway, begs doing something on both the Queensway and Lakeshore, to enable that intensification without overwhelming the streets with traffic. If you laid it out correctly, and minimized the points where cars were entering by using the parallel streets to concentrate traffic to fewer entry points, you could likely create a far more viable service. If you managed to create a closed ROW and actual signal priority, you might actually be able to create solid service without subway...where both would share the existing closed ROW section.
I would suggest the logic of having the Ontario Line hit Bloor at Dundas West, is not more service for that area (lord knows it has plenty) but to provide broader access to that concentration of services from other locations without going through Union.
I would say I have 2 substantial beefs with the Ontario line... and 1 small one.
1- the province likely should have brought in CDPQ if it was at all possible. They seem to have a radically better record on delivery, and while not sticking perfectly to budgets, not missing by multiples.
2- It should really have been planned and extended to Sheppard as part of the initial project. Creating a link with the eventual Sheppard Extension, when that becomes more than a sad stub, from its 1st day of service as an actual subway.
The small one, on the western leg, it should really have been extended to the eastern end of the Queensway street car exclusive row. Would have enabled huge improvement in the Streetcar to Etobicoke, and perhaps a real exploration of how to make it work on Lakeshore, and bringing something to the Queensway- to support substantial future intensification.
Getting to Bloor, Dundas West especially has some real value. Allowing link to UPX, and Kitchener away from Union, along with Bloor Subway and even Eglinton via UPX. Electrify UPX and make it high frequency, and you could even start to think about a stop at St Clair - linking with 512... now if only Toronto would actually maintain transit priority on its Streetcar ROWs
Re: your intro, I feel like people dont bother getting excited about the Ontario line because they assume it will not be done within 10 years and that’s too long a time horizon for most people to care about
Reece. Great post useful, and unlike 99.9% of other blogs, positive where positive is due. I sure hope your substack succeeds marvellously, as proof that there is an alternative to rage farming (which is so last year, and so boring).
Found a typo: im[act
Should be: Impact?
Very exciting indeed. I’m 100% sure it will have a big impact on the TTC as well. PSDs and automation have been standard in France since the early 80s, but RATP only started retrofitting them into its legacy system after Line 14 opened—starting with Line 13 in 2006. Now they’re on a roll, studying the automation of Lines 7, 8, 9, 11, and 13 for the 2030s! The same will happen here; no doubt we’ll see the TTC retrofit driverless operation to Line 1 in our lifetime.
I’ve heard from locals that Line 14 has a bit of a reputation as the “great one” among the lines, mostly due to its speed, frequency, and grand stations. Locals don’t even rush or seem bothered when they hear the door-closing chime—they know the next train is in 85 seconds!
The Ontario Line is going to be not just Toronto’s but North America’s first Line 14. (27 years later—but better late than never.) Sure, its costs are astronomical (at French prices, we could get a 150 km fully underground system for the same amount of money!), but its long-term impact is going to be massive for the city!
I'm optimistic about the Ontario line as well, possibly because I an see the progress weekly as I'm not far from a future station. It will cut across the city unlike the other subway lines, connecting areas currently hard to bridge with transit (or even car) like Cosburn and Exhibition.
I wasn't aware that the Ontario line wouldn't be operated by the TTC!
I know you focus primarily on the transport side, but the TOC constructions in conjunction with a number of stations is particularly exciting and novel for Toronto. So many of our older stations are practically a shack among low density Semis at most (like Chester).
I live a block from Corktown station and I'm amazed by how few people seem to have any idea this is happening. The progress is relentless so far. I'm hoping this line opens roughly on time so I can make good use of it during my retirement years when long walks are less appealing than they are now.
Wow, thanks for the update on this amazing piece of work. So many details. For example, the screens are something that should be done on every subway. This fixes a major safety concern--something I think about when riding Metro in D.C. Also, the frequency of train stops is such an important point. People don't think of the instant availability of using their car until they have to wait for a bus/train. Making trains frequent and fast will change people's minds on mass transit. People will be attracted to this; especially when development is built out at new stations. Lastly, I'll be using the Chuo line when I visit Japan this August, and your observations on the massive amount of development on this line is spot on. I taught English in the mountains there for many years, and coming into Shinjuku on the Chuo was always a fascinating train ride. Thanks!
Man, it feels so good to feel like I'm allowed to be optimistic about something in the city these days. I think the competition with the TTC aspect is going to be such a critical force in terms of improving rider experience, almost like the different rail companies operating in Greater Tokyo.
Pronto Toronto
I agree that the Ontario Line will be transformational, for all the reasons you state. Further extensions of it north in the east, and north-west from the Ex, will bring even more benefits to the city and region. Whilst Dundas West & Bloor is the favourite for the western extension, it already has Kitchener GO and UPX trains (the latter not fare integrated obvs), as well as a new GO station on the Barrie GO line a couple blocks east near Lansdowne station. It might be better to send the Ontario Line more westerly to serve Queen West and/or Dundas West, to Roncesvalles and on to the Queensway. The latter is a current stroad main street, but is becoming a condo corridor, with buildings popping up every block. Currently most transit users take buses up to Line 2 on Bloor, then on into town. It would be more efficient if they could take the Ontario Line into the built up parts of the city. I acknowledge that the Waterfront West LRT is also in the plans (albeit a later priority than the current subway extensions), but it hugs the lake, so not convenient in most locations (except at Queen & Roncies) for the West End and the Queensway. Of course, implementing transit only lanes on the streetcar lines & major arterials, with working enforcement, will do wonders for transit use and network connexions as well.
The problem with building LRT on the Queensway or Lakeshore, is likely to be the relatively narrow road allowance. The politics of reducing the lanes cars are allowed to use, is likely to be very contentious. Having said that - cost of delivery, would be radically less, and I strongly suspect we will shortly be looking hard at a belt tightening again.
City managing to make effective use of the closed ROW it already has in the eastern portion of the Queensway, begs doing something on both the Queensway and Lakeshore, to enable that intensification without overwhelming the streets with traffic. If you laid it out correctly, and minimized the points where cars were entering by using the parallel streets to concentrate traffic to fewer entry points, you could likely create a far more viable service. If you managed to create a closed ROW and actual signal priority, you might actually be able to create solid service without subway...where both would share the existing closed ROW section.
I would suggest the logic of having the Ontario Line hit Bloor at Dundas West, is not more service for that area (lord knows it has plenty) but to provide broader access to that concentration of services from other locations without going through Union.
I would say I have 2 substantial beefs with the Ontario line... and 1 small one.
1- the province likely should have brought in CDPQ if it was at all possible. They seem to have a radically better record on delivery, and while not sticking perfectly to budgets, not missing by multiples.
2- It should really have been planned and extended to Sheppard as part of the initial project. Creating a link with the eventual Sheppard Extension, when that becomes more than a sad stub, from its 1st day of service as an actual subway.
The small one, on the western leg, it should really have been extended to the eastern end of the Queensway street car exclusive row. Would have enabled huge improvement in the Streetcar to Etobicoke, and perhaps a real exploration of how to make it work on Lakeshore, and bringing something to the Queensway- to support substantial future intensification.
Above ground to the Queensway on the GO train corridor and then underground up Roncesvalles to Dundas West?
Getting to Bloor, Dundas West especially has some real value. Allowing link to UPX, and Kitchener away from Union, along with Bloor Subway and even Eglinton via UPX. Electrify UPX and make it high frequency, and you could even start to think about a stop at St Clair - linking with 512... now if only Toronto would actually maintain transit priority on its Streetcar ROWs