Certainly, Germany has a great railway system in a global context- anyone who denies that most likely hasnt left central europe, maybe went to GOATS like Switzerland, Japan or China to compare. That being said, its very much essential German behavior to complain about everything and it cant be denied that our great system is falling apart in some crucial aspects. I am not talking long distance only here. The latest delay numbers for regional and local rail transit in NRW, the most populated state, have just been released and its gotten worse again, like it has been pretty much every year since the pandemic. We are now up to 25% of all trains delayed from 13% in 2020. This figure also does not include cancelled trains. https://www1.wdr.de/nachrichten/data/datenreport-schiene-bahnverkehr-nrw-verspaetungen-zugausfaelle-100.html
This is down to several clusters of reasons, but some are recent and very much easily avoidable. For example: Our local rail franchise operators are poaching each others staff, necessitating service cuts. Whilst great for staff and for the atractiveness of the railway sector for employees in the long term, this is not a reasonable way to run an essential service. It would also be easily avoidable by more central planning.
We have also successfully destroyed our (rail) building capacity over the last ~20 years. We can not use the funds that are being made available efectively, tenders go without bidders quite often as the industry has shrunk and consolidated in a period of little construction. Our rail sector construction inflation is ludicrous, even when compared to general construction inflation (which in turn is high in comparison to general inflation rates). We are simply unable to use additional funding efectively, to the point where even though we have been spending substantially more on transit, construction avtivity has barely increased. https://bahnblogstelle.com/232873/extreme-kostensteigerung-im-bahnbereich-trotz-zusaetzlicher-milliarden-kaum-mehr-gebaut/.
This also leads to ridiculousness such as building a new set of S-Bahn tracks between Troisdorf and Bonn but not insuring there is actually enough capacity to allow trains to run through to Cologne as there is not enough capacity or willingness for cooperation between the builders of infrastructre and the regional authority actually paying for trains to be run. Now thats going to be a train largely to nowhere for at least 15 years at a cost of 750 million €- after a 10 year construction period already endured. This would of course have been avoidable if capacity earmarked for the new service on the central Cologne S-Bahn trunk had actually been safeguarded, but there is no incentive for that, as authorities for building and authorities for paying for running train services are entirely seperate entities.
Add to that the confusion at the heart of the rotting melange: -at least for me- the confusion about what we actually want out of our railway system in the long term. We are planning for an nationwide integrated clockface timetable (Deutschlandtakt) and are focusing our funding to make that possible, including massive infrastructure to make easy and efficient transfers possible-great, love that. But we are also further opening up our system to free market competition, auctioning away prime track slots to competing operators. Could also be great for prices and offerings. But why invest great sums of money and decades of construction capacity to build a system based on efficient transfers when the people will never be able to actually use it like that? Because why would DB and Flixtrain want to offer journeys made possible by interchange with their competitor? Even if we end up with a system like airline alliances, that would still mean that many of the efficient transfers are impossible because the connection is out of network. And if we force cooperation between competitors, why even bother with having two or more competing operators?
I think Germany needs to figure out what it actually wants our of its railway network, something like SBB, where there is barely any direct competition, or something like Spain with great fares and working competition between operators on the most profitable corridors, but degraded service everywhere else.
You didn't mention that North American passenger rail is only less reliable because it constantly gets screwed over by freight corporations. Also, many people in Russia can't locate Belgium or France on a map either.
I do agree, and for a Chinese when you look at their long-distance network you are like how can they be so terrible while France is so great, but when you look at the details you know small towns and villages make it a very big headache to get the long-distance high-speed lines built and the network is at first glance just "good enough" to transport you from one big German City to another just under four hours. Also, you got to acknowledge that all those stations are right at city centers. And of course there is Deustchlandtakt.
Here from the perspective from a Austrian train "user", that has recently also experienced the situation in Asian countries.
I totally agree you with the fact that the train network is generally a blessing in Germany (or the region), it mostly works pretty well.
Especially the U-Bahn and S-Bahn/local trains!
Though, there are several points that generally make the whole experience not so great:
- Constant fluctuation and uncertainty if the currently planned money pods will still exist further until the end of construction work
- also applies to stable support of the general train service support
- also applies to the maintenance of the rail network (a regularly mentioned thing lately, as they really have to fix a lot of stuff now after letting it rot)
- I can't say I would call the ICE train cars reliable, only recently had several long distance rides with ICEs and Nightjets and all of them were late by multiple hours, one even broke down (that was not my first experience of ICEs breaking down), basically already have to plan with 3h of transition time between trains if I would like to make sure I will catch it
- and that following, most ticket platforms here, calculate with, that you will catch any train if you have about 5-15min of transition time (not configurable), so booking everything separately is necessary
In my opinion on the rail network side there is really a need to split some of the much used parts into high-speed and freight/local service tracks, many delays seem to just happen because of the super mixed network, where the slightest delay of anything affects a lot of other things.
That said, generally the whole schedule is so tightly planned, that this also makes any delay a problem.
Thinking of China's or Japan's automated long distance rail lines, it would be great if such a thing could exist everywhere, because the delays just seem so much less due to that!
Finally, a downside you shouldn't forget about not having ticket gates is, the station platforms are sometimes crowded with people who are not intending to board a train, had a very pleasant time lately with that. And I generally also think it makes the passenger flow a lot more directed/keeps it under control.
Beside that the current concept of rail operators here is now, if you want to travel ticket-less, you have to be tracked via an app on the phone (yay unnecessary tracking and lots of battery usage), that's (from my standpoint) a far worse option than having ticket gates with credit/debit/train cards (or even hop-on check-in boxes).
Sorry for this very long monologue about my experience, sorry if this is just more oil for a fire, that's not worth talking about, I felt like this needed to be addressed :)
I find it funny reading this post and the comments as an American. Similar to Canada, we have so much to learn from even less good systems in Europe.
Though I will say, I do have a lot of optimism for the future of transit in Boston (and NYC too). Both Boston and NY are at least trying to get out of the stagnation trap, though it's always a struggle. Nothing nearly as ambitious as Toronto, but at least pointing in the right direction.
You forgot Cologne Airport rail station. It's also great.
I totally agree on the fare gates, as you know I do. I hate fare gates with a vengeance.
As you know, I am German, I live in Germany, and have to endure the deficiencies of the German transit networks often. It is just frustrating, and that lets you lose sight of the great things.
My wife and I came back from a direct train from Paris Gare de l'Est earlier today, a train ride of about eight hours. Still I was annoyed, fist by the unnecessary, ineffective and probably illegal passport checks on the French-German border, then by the ensuing delay which topped at I think 12 minutes or so, to be reduced to 5 minutes and Berlin-Spandau station, where we got off.
But if you really look back on it ---
-- we are greeted by a nice, friendly, ICE 3M train on time in Paris Est. Our reservations were honoured
-- the A/C was working fine, there were available toilets with toilet paper (that was replenished mid-journey [this sounds pity unless you really need some and there isn't any {we usually carry our own for emergencies}])
-- I think the "board restaurant" was stocked and functioning (we didn't test it but we saw people coming with fresh food and drinks from that part of the train)
-- the seats were clean and reasonably comfy, the train WiFi was working reasonably well, and we had one 230-V power socket available that worked fine.
We had a "human fare gate" in Paris Gare de l'Est but it wasn't a problem. We occupied our seats, as I said the power and WiFi were working at least most of the time (across a national border and at least two power systems, no less), we sat down and apart from occassional loo breaks (which were in the "acceptable" category; no more, but no less either), we just waited for arrival.
And we were about 5 minutes late.
I mean, seriously, this isn't bad.
We didn't get any speed readings on the way back (weird malfunctioning of the ICE portal; we had other malfunctions of the on-board info systems), but on the way out, the ICE 3M could really stretch its legs and get to 320 km/h (almost 100 mph) between Paris and Strasbourg.
Is that a fail? No. It's a slightly blemished success.
On the one hand, I completely agree that Germany already has a good level of public transit. Even in semi-rural areas (like the one I live in), it's possible to get around without needing a car. But on the other hand, I understand the frustration people have with our rail network.
About two years ago, the government introduced a one-month rail pass that cost only €9 and was valid on most trains and buses across Germany, excluding high-speed rail. It was government-funded and only available for three months. The number of people who used the ticket was so high that trains became extremely overcrowded. As a successor, the "Deutschlandticket" was introduced, with a price increase from €9 to €49 (still relatively cheap, but no longer a no-brainer). Due to funding issues, the price was raised again from €49 to €58 (I believe) starting this January.
Still, public transit needs to be reliable in order for commuters to use it. In cities, that's mostly not an issue due to the higher frequency of services. But rural regions face a different problem: most transit lines are city-centered. This means that a trip between two smaller towns which takes only 36 minutes by car does take 1 hour and 45 minutes by public transport. In the example I looked up, this involves going north to Munich, then taking a train back south. While there is a bus line between the two towns, it's infrequent and still requires multiple transfers.
Then there's the uncertainty about the future. In the near future, Deutsche Bahn is putting significant effort into making rail corridors more reliable, which is generally a good thing. But as another comment I recently read pointed out, Germans complain a lot. The criticism these upgrades face is that entire corridors are shut down for about a month, and freight trains are forced to take long detours.
Megaprojects are announced fairly often. Most people don't want another Stuttgart 21 (mainly because of the delays and cost) - but projects of that scale are inherently expensive and time-consuming. My biggest concern is how future-proof they actually are. For example, Stuttgart 21’s new main station will have only half the number of tracks as the old one. I know that's not the only factor, but it means physical capacity limits will be reached much sooner. That’s why both stations will operate in parallel once the new station opens, due to further delays.
The second core route in Munich is where things really fall apart. Parts of the project aren’t even fully planned yet, and several S-Bahn lines won’t be able to use the new route. It’s already a decade behind schedule.
That said, I’m still optimistic about the future of public transit in Germany.
North American in Germany, specifically Köln where the transit is really underfunded and underwhelming. I think the complaining is, undoubtedly, overblown but I think the feeling that North American feeling that rail travel is second class is conveyed a lot more in your weekly commutes than the aggregate network map suggests.
Like, take this example: last week my regional commuting train (which was the last for hours, as something broke along the route between cologne and Bonn) came with only one of three cars, broken ac, arriving at essentially a random time as both DB’s app and the station board display different and randomly shifting times. All three cars of people, plus anyone worried (rightly) worried about the next one not coming, crammed together in sauna until the train stops in a field and the driver says they have no idea when we can move. Experiences like this are, in my commuting experience, at least bi-monthly. At least one in every 4 trains I take is delayed a non-trivial amount of time.
These regular annoyances add up, and they get compounded by the occasional real horror story (current record is 5 hours of delay, which started when the ICE’s brakes kept turning on if we went above something like 50 kpm and the driver said they didn’t know how to turn the setting off).
Not disagreeing that complaining doesn’t help, super valid point and Germany should pour more resources into modernizing and reinforcing certain corridors. But I feel compelled to raise that the maps and timetables don’t capture the cumulative effect of near-constant little problems, many of which include poor communication about when or where you can get your train, compounded by the occasional truly long delay. Sprinkle in a bit of uncleanliness and the BO-themed sauna Aufgüsse that is riding a train here in the summer, and it’s easy to walk away with a negative perception of your local rail options.
Also yeah their stats exclude the canceled trains.
Long distance trains have certainly degraded in terms of service in the last few years. I lived in Germany for a few months in 2007, and I have been back many times since then. One of my favorite things to do in a weekend back in 2007, was to take regional trains to basically travel and explore smaller towns. Because of the reliability, it was easy to make trips that crossed multiple lines and make it back home in the evening. I tried doing a modest trip 2 years back across a few EU countries and every regional and long distance train in Germany was late or cancelled. In fact, for one leg myself and 2 strangers opted to pool together to get a cab for an intercity trip. The town hopping I had planned was severely curtailed.
That’s the bad part - the good part, there was no need to ever hire a car - because almost every public attraction is fully accessible by public transportation links. The trains maybe late, but you will get there, eventually.
Giving up railway yard surface in favor of building more city might hit a nerve among railway enthousiaste, who think their status depends upon the visible presence of their favorite transportation system in the city.
But actually,the real purpose of a good transportation system is bringing people to and from places where they actually want to be. So building more real estate directly surrounding the Hauptbahnhof is not a “loose of status”, it is a huge win for the public transport system as a whole 😁👌
Certainly, Germany has a great railway system in a global context- anyone who denies that most likely hasnt left central europe, maybe went to GOATS like Switzerland, Japan or China to compare. That being said, its very much essential German behavior to complain about everything and it cant be denied that our great system is falling apart in some crucial aspects. I am not talking long distance only here. The latest delay numbers for regional and local rail transit in NRW, the most populated state, have just been released and its gotten worse again, like it has been pretty much every year since the pandemic. We are now up to 25% of all trains delayed from 13% in 2020. This figure also does not include cancelled trains. https://www1.wdr.de/nachrichten/data/datenreport-schiene-bahnverkehr-nrw-verspaetungen-zugausfaelle-100.html
This is down to several clusters of reasons, but some are recent and very much easily avoidable. For example: Our local rail franchise operators are poaching each others staff, necessitating service cuts. Whilst great for staff and for the atractiveness of the railway sector for employees in the long term, this is not a reasonable way to run an essential service. It would also be easily avoidable by more central planning.
We have also successfully destroyed our (rail) building capacity over the last ~20 years. We can not use the funds that are being made available efectively, tenders go without bidders quite often as the industry has shrunk and consolidated in a period of little construction. Our rail sector construction inflation is ludicrous, even when compared to general construction inflation (which in turn is high in comparison to general inflation rates). We are simply unable to use additional funding efectively, to the point where even though we have been spending substantially more on transit, construction avtivity has barely increased. https://bahnblogstelle.com/232873/extreme-kostensteigerung-im-bahnbereich-trotz-zusaetzlicher-milliarden-kaum-mehr-gebaut/.
This also leads to ridiculousness such as building a new set of S-Bahn tracks between Troisdorf and Bonn but not insuring there is actually enough capacity to allow trains to run through to Cologne as there is not enough capacity or willingness for cooperation between the builders of infrastructre and the regional authority actually paying for trains to be run. Now thats going to be a train largely to nowhere for at least 15 years at a cost of 750 million €- after a 10 year construction period already endured. This would of course have been avoidable if capacity earmarked for the new service on the central Cologne S-Bahn trunk had actually been safeguarded, but there is no incentive for that, as authorities for building and authorities for paying for running train services are entirely seperate entities.
Add to that the confusion at the heart of the rotting melange: -at least for me- the confusion about what we actually want out of our railway system in the long term. We are planning for an nationwide integrated clockface timetable (Deutschlandtakt) and are focusing our funding to make that possible, including massive infrastructure to make easy and efficient transfers possible-great, love that. But we are also further opening up our system to free market competition, auctioning away prime track slots to competing operators. Could also be great for prices and offerings. But why invest great sums of money and decades of construction capacity to build a system based on efficient transfers when the people will never be able to actually use it like that? Because why would DB and Flixtrain want to offer journeys made possible by interchange with their competitor? Even if we end up with a system like airline alliances, that would still mean that many of the efficient transfers are impossible because the connection is out of network. And if we force cooperation between competitors, why even bother with having two or more competing operators?
I think Germany needs to figure out what it actually wants our of its railway network, something like SBB, where there is barely any direct competition, or something like Spain with great fares and working competition between operators on the most profitable corridors, but degraded service everywhere else.
You didn't mention that North American passenger rail is only less reliable because it constantly gets screwed over by freight corporations. Also, many people in Russia can't locate Belgium or France on a map either.
It is *not* the case that this is the only reason it is less reliable
I do agree, and for a Chinese when you look at their long-distance network you are like how can they be so terrible while France is so great, but when you look at the details you know small towns and villages make it a very big headache to get the long-distance high-speed lines built and the network is at first glance just "good enough" to transport you from one big German City to another just under four hours. Also, you got to acknowledge that all those stations are right at city centers. And of course there is Deustchlandtakt.
Here from the perspective from a Austrian train "user", that has recently also experienced the situation in Asian countries.
I totally agree you with the fact that the train network is generally a blessing in Germany (or the region), it mostly works pretty well.
Especially the U-Bahn and S-Bahn/local trains!
Though, there are several points that generally make the whole experience not so great:
- Constant fluctuation and uncertainty if the currently planned money pods will still exist further until the end of construction work
- also applies to stable support of the general train service support
- also applies to the maintenance of the rail network (a regularly mentioned thing lately, as they really have to fix a lot of stuff now after letting it rot)
- I can't say I would call the ICE train cars reliable, only recently had several long distance rides with ICEs and Nightjets and all of them were late by multiple hours, one even broke down (that was not my first experience of ICEs breaking down), basically already have to plan with 3h of transition time between trains if I would like to make sure I will catch it
- and that following, most ticket platforms here, calculate with, that you will catch any train if you have about 5-15min of transition time (not configurable), so booking everything separately is necessary
In my opinion on the rail network side there is really a need to split some of the much used parts into high-speed and freight/local service tracks, many delays seem to just happen because of the super mixed network, where the slightest delay of anything affects a lot of other things.
That said, generally the whole schedule is so tightly planned, that this also makes any delay a problem.
Thinking of China's or Japan's automated long distance rail lines, it would be great if such a thing could exist everywhere, because the delays just seem so much less due to that!
Finally, a downside you shouldn't forget about not having ticket gates is, the station platforms are sometimes crowded with people who are not intending to board a train, had a very pleasant time lately with that. And I generally also think it makes the passenger flow a lot more directed/keeps it under control.
Beside that the current concept of rail operators here is now, if you want to travel ticket-less, you have to be tracked via an app on the phone (yay unnecessary tracking and lots of battery usage), that's (from my standpoint) a far worse option than having ticket gates with credit/debit/train cards (or even hop-on check-in boxes).
Sorry for this very long monologue about my experience, sorry if this is just more oil for a fire, that's not worth talking about, I felt like this needed to be addressed :)
I find it funny reading this post and the comments as an American. Similar to Canada, we have so much to learn from even less good systems in Europe.
Though I will say, I do have a lot of optimism for the future of transit in Boston (and NYC too). Both Boston and NY are at least trying to get out of the stagnation trap, though it's always a struggle. Nothing nearly as ambitious as Toronto, but at least pointing in the right direction.
The real problem is evil car-loving politicians and their bootlickers without passports who don't understand transit.
You forgot Cologne Airport rail station. It's also great.
I totally agree on the fare gates, as you know I do. I hate fare gates with a vengeance.
As you know, I am German, I live in Germany, and have to endure the deficiencies of the German transit networks often. It is just frustrating, and that lets you lose sight of the great things.
My wife and I came back from a direct train from Paris Gare de l'Est earlier today, a train ride of about eight hours. Still I was annoyed, fist by the unnecessary, ineffective and probably illegal passport checks on the French-German border, then by the ensuing delay which topped at I think 12 minutes or so, to be reduced to 5 minutes and Berlin-Spandau station, where we got off.
But if you really look back on it ---
-- we are greeted by a nice, friendly, ICE 3M train on time in Paris Est. Our reservations were honoured
-- the A/C was working fine, there were available toilets with toilet paper (that was replenished mid-journey [this sounds pity unless you really need some and there isn't any {we usually carry our own for emergencies}])
-- I think the "board restaurant" was stocked and functioning (we didn't test it but we saw people coming with fresh food and drinks from that part of the train)
-- the seats were clean and reasonably comfy, the train WiFi was working reasonably well, and we had one 230-V power socket available that worked fine.
We had a "human fare gate" in Paris Gare de l'Est but it wasn't a problem. We occupied our seats, as I said the power and WiFi were working at least most of the time (across a national border and at least two power systems, no less), we sat down and apart from occassional loo breaks (which were in the "acceptable" category; no more, but no less either), we just waited for arrival.
And we were about 5 minutes late.
I mean, seriously, this isn't bad.
We didn't get any speed readings on the way back (weird malfunctioning of the ICE portal; we had other malfunctions of the on-board info systems), but on the way out, the ICE 3M could really stretch its legs and get to 320 km/h (almost 100 mph) between Paris and Strasbourg.
Is that a fail? No. It's a slightly blemished success.
On the one hand, I completely agree that Germany already has a good level of public transit. Even in semi-rural areas (like the one I live in), it's possible to get around without needing a car. But on the other hand, I understand the frustration people have with our rail network.
About two years ago, the government introduced a one-month rail pass that cost only €9 and was valid on most trains and buses across Germany, excluding high-speed rail. It was government-funded and only available for three months. The number of people who used the ticket was so high that trains became extremely overcrowded. As a successor, the "Deutschlandticket" was introduced, with a price increase from €9 to €49 (still relatively cheap, but no longer a no-brainer). Due to funding issues, the price was raised again from €49 to €58 (I believe) starting this January.
Still, public transit needs to be reliable in order for commuters to use it. In cities, that's mostly not an issue due to the higher frequency of services. But rural regions face a different problem: most transit lines are city-centered. This means that a trip between two smaller towns which takes only 36 minutes by car does take 1 hour and 45 minutes by public transport. In the example I looked up, this involves going north to Munich, then taking a train back south. While there is a bus line between the two towns, it's infrequent and still requires multiple transfers.
Then there's the uncertainty about the future. In the near future, Deutsche Bahn is putting significant effort into making rail corridors more reliable, which is generally a good thing. But as another comment I recently read pointed out, Germans complain a lot. The criticism these upgrades face is that entire corridors are shut down for about a month, and freight trains are forced to take long detours.
Megaprojects are announced fairly often. Most people don't want another Stuttgart 21 (mainly because of the delays and cost) - but projects of that scale are inherently expensive and time-consuming. My biggest concern is how future-proof they actually are. For example, Stuttgart 21’s new main station will have only half the number of tracks as the old one. I know that's not the only factor, but it means physical capacity limits will be reached much sooner. That’s why both stations will operate in parallel once the new station opens, due to further delays.
The second core route in Munich is where things really fall apart. Parts of the project aren’t even fully planned yet, and several S-Bahn lines won’t be able to use the new route. It’s already a decade behind schedule.
That said, I’m still optimistic about the future of public transit in Germany.
North American in Germany, specifically Köln where the transit is really underfunded and underwhelming. I think the complaining is, undoubtedly, overblown but I think the feeling that North American feeling that rail travel is second class is conveyed a lot more in your weekly commutes than the aggregate network map suggests.
Like, take this example: last week my regional commuting train (which was the last for hours, as something broke along the route between cologne and Bonn) came with only one of three cars, broken ac, arriving at essentially a random time as both DB’s app and the station board display different and randomly shifting times. All three cars of people, plus anyone worried (rightly) worried about the next one not coming, crammed together in sauna until the train stops in a field and the driver says they have no idea when we can move. Experiences like this are, in my commuting experience, at least bi-monthly. At least one in every 4 trains I take is delayed a non-trivial amount of time.
These regular annoyances add up, and they get compounded by the occasional real horror story (current record is 5 hours of delay, which started when the ICE’s brakes kept turning on if we went above something like 50 kpm and the driver said they didn’t know how to turn the setting off).
Not disagreeing that complaining doesn’t help, super valid point and Germany should pour more resources into modernizing and reinforcing certain corridors. But I feel compelled to raise that the maps and timetables don’t capture the cumulative effect of near-constant little problems, many of which include poor communication about when or where you can get your train, compounded by the occasional truly long delay. Sprinkle in a bit of uncleanliness and the BO-themed sauna Aufgüsse that is riding a train here in the summer, and it’s easy to walk away with a negative perception of your local rail options.
Also yeah their stats exclude the canceled trains.
Long distance trains have certainly degraded in terms of service in the last few years. I lived in Germany for a few months in 2007, and I have been back many times since then. One of my favorite things to do in a weekend back in 2007, was to take regional trains to basically travel and explore smaller towns. Because of the reliability, it was easy to make trips that crossed multiple lines and make it back home in the evening. I tried doing a modest trip 2 years back across a few EU countries and every regional and long distance train in Germany was late or cancelled. In fact, for one leg myself and 2 strangers opted to pool together to get a cab for an intercity trip. The town hopping I had planned was severely curtailed.
That’s the bad part - the good part, there was no need to ever hire a car - because almost every public attraction is fully accessible by public transportation links. The trains maybe late, but you will get there, eventually.
About Stuttgart 21…
Giving up railway yard surface in favor of building more city might hit a nerve among railway enthousiaste, who think their status depends upon the visible presence of their favorite transportation system in the city.
But actually,the real purpose of a good transportation system is bringing people to and from places where they actually want to be. So building more real estate directly surrounding the Hauptbahnhof is not a “loose of status”, it is a huge win for the public transport system as a whole 😁👌
Consider how good Germany is at *rail-based* transit.